Debunking Supplement Myths: The Truth About Creatine
Think creatine builds muscle? Think again. In this episode, we break down a new study challenging the long-standing belief that creatine increases lean muscle mass—revealing it might just be water retention. We also dive into one of the most misdiagnosed sources of pain in sports and general practice: nerve irritation mistaken for muscle strains. You’ll hear real-world cases, clinical insights, and supplement stories (including how glutamine saved a bachelor trip).
Creatine Article Links: https://scitechdaily.com/popular-supplement-under-fire-new-research-reveals-that-creatine-may-not-help-build-extra-muscle/ https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/6/1081
-
Beau Beard (00:00.078)
It's already starting off good talking about frozen fruit. What'd freeze? You froze your own fruit? didn't buy frozen fruit? Well, here's what we usually do. It's exciting. Listen up guys. We're dog sitting. Are we live right now? yeah. Okay, cool. We're dog sitting and we were joking yesterday that whenever we leave to go dog sit because we'll stay there for a coach. And when you say we, who's the jokesters here? Who's the merry round of jokesters? Total D and them. Okay. I am total D. Yeah.
So we always joke that we leave one thing at home. But we always feel like, all right, I got everything. I even paused in the kitchen and said, all right, I know I'm missing one thing. And then I went and said, ah, phone charger, grabbed it, get to the house and went frozen fruit. for, cause we'll bring everything. Cause I'll be there for like five, six days. Um, so normally smoothies that I'll make in the morning, I got some frozen fruit in it. That's like cherries, blueberries, raspberries, strawberries.
Well, I was like, well, I did bring some fruits. I can just freeze those instead. And it worked. There you have it, folks. This is the questions that I get on a daily basis from Alex. I do think that at some point, we're just going to do a video of us making our breakfast. We don't have enough time in the day for you to like lay out everything. Like I do exactly this. I take seven blueberries. You know where they do the videos where they just put the ingredients going into the cup?
I would love to see you try to do that. it'll probably take me a week, I'm stoked to see you get that to It's a little kid with the phone. The camera also needs to slightly shake just so that way people get an idea of what it's like riding in the car with you. Just like your eyes get a blurry vision. Because he starts getting, I don't know, anxious. Coffee wasn't in yet. Well, if you're just tuning into the video, you're seeing the...
the love seat here. This is a couch, is a couch. Love seats too. Yeah, it's three wide, this is what happens when golf simulator takes over a giant space and now the couch is in here. I think it's, I don't think it's that bad for three people. Four would get a little weird. We could have somebody under the desk in front of us, but yeah. This is the intern spot there. Yeah. This is the new set of interns will just have to be off camera. They have whiteboards that show us what to say. We could have three. teleprompter.
Beau Beard (02:27.618)
Yeah, so speaking of the golf simulator, announced the other day that DNS Golf will be coming to the farm, Birmingham. We don't know if it'll be here, depending on how many people sign up, but huge, I think a huge course. Brett Winchester will be the main instructor for the DNS portion. Dr. Greg Rose is coming in to do kind of a overview talk on 3D analysis using technology and
Either tandem or separate Mark Blackburn, voted number one coach in the world via Golf Digest will be there because we're in Birmingham where Greystone Blackburn Performance Center is at Greystone Country Club. So we'll be out there, maybe have some special guests from the golf world to use as examples and then yours truly will be doing something, I don't know, standing around with my, I don't know, finger in my somewhere.
trying to figure out what I should be doing with all these really high level people. So We can show you where the finger goes. Yep. So that's on Blackjack Education. It's also on BeauBeard.com. Registered January 2nd through the 4th. I think it's going to be probably one of the biggest, coolest courses I've been to, even though I'm hosting it. So obviously I'm biased, but I went to DNS Golf in St. Louis when Pavel Kolash came in.
So was Pavel Alenna. I think Alisco was there. So there were multiple instructors and we had some pro golfers because we had Jeff Palazzaro and it's when golf stuff was getting big. So anyways, I'm excited for that. Any updates with you guys outside of that besides frozen fruit and coffee shakes? I pretty much took up Alex's entire mind for the last like two nights.
Beau Beard (04:21.526)
updates. get your triathlon coming up. You're well, yeah. If you've listened long enough, hopefully you've listened to the last two episodes. Yeah. They just want the results now. Yeah. Well, results can't happen without the race. Uploading. So I've got what? Three weeks, I guess, until that one. Yeah. Currently. Wow. Is it really? We got five. I said until like the Vulcan Tri one. That one's in two. Yeah. 19th. Same day as Tranquility Trail. Yeah. I guess I'm going to Nashville this weekend for DNF.
So we got DNS a with Brett Winchester. I'm leaving directly after this podcast for that big weekend. I also have the chairs. Yes. So I'm bringing if we're 12, I have six 12. Yep. I brought two. I brought six and six and four. Okay. So you're bringing two. No, there's 12. So we bought 10 off Amazon. Then we have two from home. That should be 12 unless somebody stole some chairs.
But we have 16 people signed up outside of the people that are hosting the course. if you don't get it, I guess it's just like musical chairs. First one show up, get a chair. Or a med ball. Or just hold horse stance the entire time. So yeah, DNSA this weekend. You're leading a hike for the running retreat this weekend out of Oat Mountain. Yep, lost a times. Nice. And if you're from...
Alabama the Birmingham area Bend Oak Mountain you would realize how hard it is to get lost on the hike that Alex is leading buddy did Hey, man, there were three blue markers and they went three different directions like Trail markers with numbers on them. No, they were just they were just on the tree the blazes the blue Yeah, and they went three different directions.
Beau Beard (06:11.198)
I wasn't out there so I can either confirm or deny. I had it all up into that point. Hmm. But there was an old guy that said, I just went up there. Maggie's Glen, to yellow-red connector, to red, to red-blue connector, And get to the top. So you get to the top where there's marquee, top red-blue connector. can go left or right. That's blue. Took a right on blue. you would have taken a left to go to King's Chair. Or at the top red-blue connector to go to King's Chair, you absolutely take a left. It took a left off of blue to get through. No.
Like, dude, I've run that trail. If you're going up Red Blue Connector from the Red Road, right? You went Red Yellow right across that little bridge on the Red Road. Up Red Blue Connector. When you get to the top, there's a brand new marquee because the old marquee fell down. Right? So if you're here, that's your right. That's a right. You're taking a left. Brother King's Chair is up here. Yeah. So you came up here. Yeah, I went this way and then took a right.
We're talking about two different red-blue connectors then. Yeah, that's exactly what I did right there. And then I got up here and there's somewhere around this area. I bet you it was right here. And this is the guy telling me that he got lost while I'm trying to tell him. This little thing was blue. And I was like, all right, that's blue. This is blue. And there's a little side trail that was also blue. you took. OK, I know where you went. I saw a guy hiking down.
You went further down the red road. were on the red road for a little bit, weren't you? Yeah. Yeah. So that's not what I'm talking about. Yeah. It's not the most enjoyable hike. was definitely this that trail. Yeah. Because it was past that little 102. Yeah. There's another one up here. Yeah. I looked. Because I remember you saying it wasn't very far. It's right across the bridge when you come down off that red-yellow connector. Yeah. So if you're on the hike with Alex and he gets lost, help him out there. Make sure you know your colors. That's why we're good. We're doing a good OAB.
Well, out and back. It's only going to take him four hours. you did. On the way out, on the way back, I was good. So we got that going on this weekend, DNS. I guess some off coming up fairly soon. Art of Assessment Birmingham, August 9th and 10th. You can also go to BeauBeard.com to learn more about that. But that will wrap up our Art of Assessment hybrid portion. So we're
Beau Beard (08:36.078)
We just did module 12. have three, four more modules after that. Um, one more live module left. So, and then that class will be wrapped up. And then if you signed up for that online portion of the hybrid, get a big discount to that live class, which is the art of assessment class, August 9th and 10th in Birmingham. The only other thing outside of that event wise that I can think of is barn burner, which we haven't talked about on here. don't think. Yeah. So June 14th.
we, would be the third year running, but it's changed distances. So the prior two years we did a five and 11 ish mile race. This year we have a 10 K and a half marathon using a new trail that now you have to use because you can't access where we went before when you go through Dunwoody Valley park. but you start on the Dunwoody Valley greenway by the soccer fields that are right across the street from the farm.
Dunham Valley Greenway to Dunham Valley Park, which you take the Waterfalls Trail. You take that up to the Jeep Road. You get off on Ravens Roost, or sorry, Laurel Loop. Go around Laurel Loop, kind of come back on the road. Ravens Roost back up onto the road and then kind of meander around some of the trails up on the ridge, burn it back down and then come back where you came from, which is where Alex will be saying this is the back portion. Can't get lost now. Yeah, I think it'll be a fun race. We've got some people signed up already, which is headed to Curve.
Beau Beard (10:01.15)
If I have a patient that challenges me, then I'll run it. So you heard that here. If you're a patient of Alex's, throw down the gauntlet, throw down a challenge, put a line in the sand, make him run it. Should I come up with an injury? That way I challenge you? I challenge you to a duel. We threw out some birthday challenges. have gotten older since we...
Yeah, so he had a birthday last week and I threw out some Gift challenges. Yeah out there Decision yet. Well, it won't be the southeastern series because that's they have the summer retreat Okay, how are we be the long race? Okay. So the three challenges I threw out to Alex is a birthday gift which some of you be like man that shitty present He had to bail out on the Race before the last
Right. quite. It was the last one. Okay. He did all the short series and then bailed out due to an injury. So I was like, Hey, I'll, you know, re up the series if you want to do that, but he has something going on, which weak excuse already just doing both, um, or long solo hike, um, by yourself, like solo hike or a race that's longer than a marathon. Cause you've done a marathon, but nothing longer than that. I you'd done a marathon. No, it's gotta be longer than a marathon. Yeah. Um,
marathons for the week. should do Blood Rock. So that's what I threw out for him and he hasn't made a decision yet but it sounds like it's down to the hike or the long run. So we'll update you on that when he makes his mind up. needs to do the long race. And let's also put a timeline on it. So today is what? April 3rd? got till the end of April. Okay. next show. Yeah. Two weeks. Two weeks. Next show you got to tell.
All of these listeners, all two of them. Yeah. We done. So rap. Yeah. So this'll, yeah, I don't know what it's always the same season. So I don't know what season of white Lotus is 10 or 11. yeah, we'll be done for the summer unless we have some special episode or something. after this next episode, so we'll take a three month hiatus and then start back up probably August or early September or something like that. Yeah. Any other updates with us events?
Beau Beard (12:23.106)
happenings onto the fun stuff. So I literally was thinking this morning, I was like, I don't have a good article and I'm just always perusing stuff. this, basically a review article from SciTech Daily came up and it said, supplement under fire, new research reveals that creatine may not help build extra muscle. Whoa, boy.
So creatine gets talked about as the safest supplement you could take, the supplement that's got maybe the widest range of effects from cognitive, know, post-concussive, obviously lean muscle mass gets talked about, female hormone regulation, all these things get talked about, but where it was originally talked about was the ability to build more lean muscle mass through the mechanism of basically making it easier to shuttle glycogen into the muscle.
especially via basically an ability to retain water in the muscle and then had glycogen delivering that way. So what this study was looking at was the flaws in previous studies and saying the methodological approach never preloaded creatine, which is kind of funny because they talk about preloading creatine, not necessarily to get it in your system, but preloading it before exercise starts. So every study previously, according to this one,
starts creatine and the exercise on the same day. This one did a week preload and what they found out was, so in these previous studies they only built like a kilogram to two kilograms of lean muscle mass, right, and that was over like a 12 week period. This study, the week prior, before they started the exercise creatine protocol, they gave them creatine without the exercise. Across the board everybody gained a kilogram of lean muscle mass based on basically a DEXA scan.
So now what this article saying is, I don't think anybody's gaining lean muscle mass because that basically went back to status quo. So after that week, it kind of went back to normal. So they're thinking they're just retaining water and you're picking up on a DEXA scan that the muscles have more water in it. It still looks like lean muscle mass. It's just water retention. Wait, so how long did they do it after the first, like not preloading the creatine. How long was the time period that they took the creatine and were exercising? On previous studies or this one? Like 12 weeks.
Beau Beard (14:48.75)
So then if it was going back down, wouldn't it have gone down? No, well, no. So that's what they're saying. So they started exercising at the same time. So the creatine, you hang on to the water retention when the exercise comes around. Those people that took it for a week, by the time they started the exercise, it was back to normal. And when they started the exercise, they were no longer taking creatine? No, they kept the creatine going. So they're saying that you think...
they think you're getting a flawed view of the one, two kilograms lean muscle mass just via water retention in all these previous studies. So then, which I cannot believe, and again, I didn't have time to look through all these, that nobody's done a standalone take creatine, don't exercise. Which is what they kind of did for a week. You need to do a repeat study with 12 weeks of just creatine. Right? Versus 12 weeks. Again, there's gotta be these studies, 12 weeks, no creatine. What's the, you know, comparative.
but I'll kind of read through the specific study methods because of what they're trying to get after. 63, 34 females, 29 males. Participants were randomized as supplement with CRM five grams a day, which is the typical recommended amount for 13 weeks because they had the one week of preloading. Wash in plus 12 week resistance training or service control received no creatine or placebo. Lean body mass was measured using
dual X-ray absorbit, trauma, oh my God. Absorb. Absorbitometry? Oh God, having a hard time saying that one today. Post seven day wash-in and post 12 weeks of resistance training. So they did one after that wash-in period, right? And then post 12 weeks, both groups began the same training program post creatine wash-in. Results after the seven day wash-in, the supplement group gained 0.51 plus or minus 1.79 kilograms
more lean body mass. we're saying lean body mass, not muscle, right? Because if you fill up a muscle with fluid, that muscle has more mass.
Beau Beard (16:51.714)
Following the wash-in, both groups gained two kilograms after resistance training. So that's again, so that is that study. So no creatine, creatine both had two kilograms gain during the resistance training phase. So that is looking at that, guess. Sex disaggregated analysis showed the supplement group only in females gained 0.59 to 1.61.
There were no group differences in lean body mass growth following resistance training in females or males. Conclusion is seven day creatine wash in increased lean body mass, particularly in females. Thereafter creatine did not enhance lean body mass growth when combined with resistance training likely due to a short term effects on lean body mass measurements. And then it says at the end, a maintenance dose of higher than five grams a day may be necessary to augment lean body mass growth, which I don't really understand if the whole mechanism is just water retention.
which I get that it's delivery of glycogen is what's supposedly supercharged, but there's also a mitochondrial effect, which is why it can help endurance athletes. we'll put, I'll put both articles, that kind of SciTech Daily one that's just talking about this and then the actual article that they're kind of reviewing. It's just interesting. And again, this gets into the whole research problem.
Here's an article that refutes, don't know how many, everybody likes to say that creatine is the most studied supplement out there. So if this one refutes that, then you'd have to repeat this study, but then somebody will say, well, there's all these other studies that show this. This isn't looking at cognitive benefits. Yeah, it's just something to look at. And then the mechanism of water retention is something else that's talked in here or talked about in here. And I was trying to look for that real quick.
Because that's where it does get into, which this was always talked about when I was in high school, if you had any sort of kidney issue, you might not want to take creatine and then that's kind of been like, oh, it's fine. But it literally does change hormone signaling, that's why you're retaining water. But I'm not gonna sit here and just read through the article on the show. So anyways, look at this article, see what you think about it. We're not telling you to take creatine or not, I think you do.
Beau Beard (19:04.878)
My dad takes it. Do you notice a difference? Yeah, he... And what? So for my dad's, my dad's just turned 60 and he does a couple of days a week of resistance training, plays golf once or twice a week. And then in the summers, he bikes one to three times a week. And he started taking it last summer and he noticed that it was way easier to stay up with us when we would ride for longer. normally...
If we do any route that has any sort of hills, he gets shot off the back real quick. If it's flat, shot off the I don't think that's what you said. Normally these are the wind blockers. He's tucked in. Yeah. But yeah, and he definitely could hang on for rides longer after he started taking that. Felt like he had more energy during the day. felt like...
You've been taking longer than he went off of it at all since starting it or you or because I guess that's when you. Yeah, it's like coffee. You get used to it. I'm not having that. Are you having the same? Are you still elevated or do you drop back down and you don't realize it because you do have like caffeine if you go off it the first few days, you're like, whoa, and then you go back to normal even though caffeine is still in your system. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't come off of it. I've probably also been taking it for about a year and a half. Whenever.
I do feel like, my granite, I was just lifting more this winter than I had been before, but I've had periods of time where I've lifted more than endurance training and I felt like I was stronger and numbers would show that I was stronger in the gym this past winter than I had been previously. I don't know. What about you? Has it transitioned any differently with the triathlon training?
which you haven't really done before, you've done a large volume of running training, like end of college. I guess I never took it in college. I literally didn't take it till...
Beau Beard (21:13.518)
somewhere in Cairo school or right after Cairo school. So yeah, probably about the time I got here is when I started taking it. Just almost two years.
I don't know. It's a, it's a weird mix of it. was like with the triathlon stuff, like I feel like I could breathe forever, forever at like whatever pace, right? Whatever effort I put in, I feel like I could just go forever. But it literally just like the actual like strength component of like my muscles not feeling like they're fixing it. You're saying that's when you're saying creatine or just you and Jim. I have no idea. That'll be a hundred percent because we've just kept it. I don't know. Mine is also, I guess when I do such long endurance days,
is mine just like I'm not fueling enough, which probably versus days that I do fuel, I feel like I can go for a long time and I don't know if that's the creatine as well, right? I feel like my power output's a little bit higher, but I also pair it with fish oil and I feel like the fish oil helps me a ton. I don't know why, but we also talked about like testosterone stuff with that one. That's kind of why I was like- With the fish oil. Because there's also a argument out there that if you eat meat, which
you guys probably eat even more than I do, that you're getting plenty of creatine. Because mean, again, you have to eat meat to get creatine, in particular red meat. So there's an argument that like you already have it and then you can't, you know, there is an upper limit to how much you can like utilize. So in a quick search of like, should you cycle creatine or not, basically using, you know, Google's AI, which is going to pull into the same thing if you use Chagy BT at this point. It kind of says not really.
It goes both ways because it says no, there's no benefit to it. You can super saturate and then get to a maintenance level coming off of it. Doesn't like from a danger standpoint, there's no reason to cycle. But then it says some studies suggest that prolonged creatine use can lead to a decrease in body's ability to absorb and store creatine cycling. Creatine may help to prevent this. I don't know. The one thing I'd want to look up is how well can you store creatine? From my understanding, you can't. I it's not like you can just store an amino acid.
Beau Beard (23:20.398)
But yeah, I don't know. Anytime we talk about this performative benefit where you're feel better taking it, I just wondered how much of that's placebo.
Beau Beard (23:33.39)
Yeah. also helps like ATP reuptake too. That's what I gonna say. There's some of this stuff is actually shown that it may be more beneficial for endurance athletes instead of power athletes. That's what my dad had experienced on the bike. Cause I feel like I can, I know. Again, it's also my training. Like I don't know. Like I'm, haven't played around with it enough to be like, am I just like getting physically stronger and more efficient?
on certain things. feel like on the bike I can recover really well, like at the top of a hill. I get to the of a hill, like I can like put power down and like you give me five minutes, like I can climb like just as hard again, like right after it. Yeah. I feel like my dad's comparison is pretty consistent to look at it over the years because he's been riding for eight, nine years and he pretty much only rides in the summers, maybe into the fall because it's all weather dependent. And that has traditionally been once, maybe twice a week.
And it's always a long ride on a Saturday. So it's usually at least an hour and a half, two hours upwards of six, depending on how far we went. If we go to Atlanta. If we go to Atlanta, yeah. And that's when he noticed the biggest difference, was when he was riding for longer distances. So 95 % of creatine stored in skeletal muscle, which makes sense, amino acid conjugates. You form what? From.
what? Methionine. my gosh, I shouldn't do this. Glycine, arginine, and methionine is what you're going to form creatine from in your own body. And then a lot of that's happening in the liver and kidneys. And then you can supplement, but it says the capacity store up to 160 grams of creatine under certain conditions, which I'd have to tap into those articles. Then you break down about one to 2 % of the creatine pool per day, you know, as creatinine, which is the
the bad byproduct if you go hard in the paint with the CrossFit. 2-3 grams? 160. Yeah. So yeah, that – you know, now we can see why that 5-gram, you know, daily supplement rate comes from. would go off like the 5-grams if you're like actually exercising too probably. Right. Because 3 – it's 3-5 grams the recommended, you know, dose and then we just see 5-grams maintenance. That's for 70-kilogram. Yeah. So I guess it would depend on muscle mass, not weight.
Beau Beard (25:54.766)
Well, it's the same thing with protein intake. Yeah, it's saying 120 grams for 70 kilogram individual. So maybe if you were. This is average human and I know average human size is not average US size. I think that's 165 pounds for a male. But like we talked about last time that that could be the same muscle mass, right? In that person or even less for 300. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's something to look at. I mean, the stuff I've looked at the most is for like
post-concussive TBIs and things like that. mean, it's, cause you store the other 5 % in your brain, right? It's 95 % muscle, 5 % of brain. It's used for a variety of processes within the brain. But in particular, when we think about, you know, what happens with the neuroinflammatory changes, post-concussion or TBI, getting your, sounds stupid to say, getting your brain hydrated, but not having that inflammatory cascade kind of just sitting there. So we want, you know, movement.
you know, through the ventricles and getting the CSF pumping and a lot of that is like how you're bringing fluid into that area besides just, you know, getting adequate rest and sleep. Yeah. So we'll maybe dive into that more on future episodes, but if you have questions about this, I don't know, obviously don't ask us cause it looks like we don't know what we're talking about. But it is something that gets talked about enough to where, yeah, we all, I've toyed around with it. honestly, I don't see any benefit when I do it or feel a benefit and I've went on and off of it.
over the past five, six years, numerous times. So to me, yeah, it's a cheap thing, but I'm, don't know. I try a bunch of stuff. The one thing that I've taken recently that I'm like, man, that is, I can tell the difference is Ashwagandha. It's like, which seemed for me, I was like, I would not expect a moderate dose adaptogen to do anything. But when I was taking it, was like, I just feel like I, know, cause it's meant for recovery purposes in particular.
looking at mitochondrial processes and it's just one of those things that started taking it. And I don't know, I'm not taking it now because I was, when I was training a lot more, I was like, I feel different on this, whatever you want to say that is. But. Well, what were you comparing as feeling different? mental clarity or like rested or like you could go harder all the time. Yeah, I just think I would like recover faster. Okay. So like if I was sore or did a really hard workout, like the next day I'd be like, I don't feel like it's beat up.
Beau Beard (28:18.806)
as I was now again, there's a training effect that was training more. So maybe you're adapting more, but like, you know, I started taking that two months before. And then, you know, it was like, as I got into that, I even said something to Sloan one day, was like, man, I cannot believe or I was even like, I don't know if it's this, but that's the only thing I've changed. was like, I just feel like better. Yeah. So again, how much of that are you taking actual gun does that every day? I don't know what the actual amount and it's two capsules of the, is that from thorn? No, think it's
Pure encapsulations. Blanking on the brand, can see the bottle on there. I think it's pure encapsulations. And now is that something that you should cycle on and off? Adaptogens in general, yeah, because I mean, you can basically adapt to that kind of mechanism. The other thing that's kind of talked about with Ashwagandha is like depression. So let's see. And I wouldn't be able to speak as to the reason why. Let's see.
If anything comes up here.
says research has shown that ashwagandha has potential consequences under pressure management by mimicking the effect of anti-depressant and anxiolytic drugs. This is saying to help it. Let's see, causing. And it was in particular the thing I was looking at in endurance athletes.
Beau Beard (29:42.336)
Is it because you feel so good you're constantly training you're constantly alone? I don't know. Trousiness. It doesn't really. It's not pulling a lot out here.
Beau Beard (29:54.862)
Yeah, I'd have to look into it a little more on the mechanism. It's just something I saw in a post one day about endurance athletes in particular, because that's where a lot of people started gravitating towards it for the adaptogen standpoint. I know, I'd have to look into it a little more. But yeah, I don't take a lot anymore. The only thing I take consistently now is the, I don't know, Dr. Axis company. It's not ancestral supplements, is it?
Incessant nutrition, prime. Incessant. Yeah, think it's ancestral. But the desiccated basically like no organs. Like the beef things. It's like kidney, liver, heart, things like that all like in these like pills.
No, it's not ancestral. It's like a brown bottle. Ancient nutrition, think. Ancient, yeah, that's it. It's got like a old iron look to it. I'll just grab that. And I take the organs blend. Bronze. But I use this as like, to me, this is like taking multivitamin. So if we looked at... Do you feel different on that? Hard to say. No, I don't think so.
But I also think I'm a fairly healthy person. So I think to push the needle big time would be hard with a supplement. And I think a lot of people expect to feel different on a supplement and like that's not probably the goal. You're just filling small gaps. Yeah. But I look at this as so if you looked at the breakdown of this serving size, six capsules, I don't take six every day, probably three to four. But it breaks it down by the vitamins, but then it's pulling. Well, where'd you get that from? Like vitamin A, fermented retinol, organic.
saccharomyces and then a multi-organ blend. it's saying we're getting it from those organs or some of its, you know, cultured. and to say all this is food sources, I guess, I mean, it's culture from bacteria that I guess you could eat. but I'm using this as my multivitamin. All right. And I, I won't during the summer, but the only thing I would take in addition to this would be vitamin D from the same company. that's all I vitamin D in this winter. Yeah. So I, I have a harder time basically.
Beau Beard (32:17.87)
conjugating vitamin D. So I'll take it then. I won't take it in the summer because I'm out in the sun a ton. Yeah, and this kind of covers bases there. And then I mean, if I'm, I don't know how we got off on what I take supplement wise, but if I'm feeling like the kids are sick or I'm feeling it, elderberry with vitamin C from Quicksilver. Staying stock elderberry, huh? And then Ashwagandha, that's kind of it.
been trying a little passion flower extract for sleep stuff. They have a kid's version and an adult version. I don't know if that really does anything. Yeah, I don't know. Ben Greenfield talking about it. I think he's full of shit. But yeah.
What do you guys take on a daily basis? Phosphatidylcholine and omega-3 are official in the morning.
If need be, like for GI stuff, I'll do the glutamine or costrum. Yeah. You had some note in here about glutamine Nashville testimony. methylated B vitamins. I just got Sloan's, genetic report back, which I'll do a whole podcast on that. Cause I'm going to show you how I break one of those down. she had all of the, all the methylation defects. Yeah. All of them suckers.
Plus a- Has she been taking Methylgart? No. I mean, the only time she was taking that was prenatals had all those in it, but she hasn't taken really anything since pregnancy or since delivering kit, I guess. And then a bunch of genes that can have a up regulator down regulated reaction to histamine. So those are her two biggest things. pair those together in the wrong way. That can be a nightmare. So, and we're also, we talked about this last time, which it'll be coming the varicose vein.
Beau Beard (34:09.582)
podcast, but when you talk about histamine response with that, that's what's causing a lot of that. Yeah. So that's something that we now knowing that maybe we go harder in the paint on that thing for her for a symptom. I don't think that's going to abolish varicose but it could help with symptomatology. So those three and creatine. Okay. What about you? Whey protein and peanut butter. Creatine. Yeah.
I pretty much only do creatine and whey protein. That's the only, there's only supplements I do. So why whey protein? Whey on purpose or just that's what you do? It's just what I've done. I guess same. I also don't feel like. Yeah, I've done it and I've gone on and off and I didn't feel a difference. as far as can drink milk and I don't feel terrible. So like the lactose piece doesn't like bother me. My stomach doesn't feel upset depending on how much I have. Like I can eat, you know, tub of ice cream and feel okay.
we know. I feel like a tub of lard, but that's also paired with like, you know, 10 wings and two and a half million scoville units down the cut. So, yeah, I don't, don't feel like bloated or anything like that. Like most people talk about, and then yeah, I fish oil and I do fish oil. I split it up. do one pill in the morning, one at night. I especially take it. Like I try to pair it with, like, if I do a hard workout, I'll normally eat like something quick.
So that way can get the fish all like right after it for just like recovery effects. Like how quick though? Hmm. Probably within like 30 minutes to an hour. if I do something like if I exercise at like two or three o'clock, like I pretty much get home. Cause I know there is a blunting effect, like a anti-horometic effect with taking fish oil too close to exercise. Just like you don't want to take protein right after, right? You want to have some of that catabolic effect kind of run for a little bit. And then same thing with like
cold plunge protein fish oil, because fish oil is going to have a protein signaling effect that kind of signals like, let's make muscle. Same thing. If you ingest much protein right away, you go from that catabolic, right back into the anabolic. You want to kind of like let that go a little bit. I think it's probably probably not terrible, but there is research showing that if you took it like right at the end, like you'll want a little bit of that response, but probably not enough. I guess it also tried to get like a decent amount of carbs in like pretty quick after like a hard.
Beau Beard (36:27.552)
a hard workout just purely for recovery. So there's some studies, like if you wait three hours, you can, people, there's been studies, like if you wait longer than three hours to start getting carbs and stuff, the next day your recovery is less. You can't put out as much power and stuff like that. So I try to Like it's back into creatine and shuttling, glycogen and muscles and liver. And that's the thing too. It's like, even if you got the same amount of carbs in that day, but if you just waited too long after exercise.
Like you could still eat the same amount of calories and people are like, well, I'm getting my calories in. It's like, yeah, but you also do something like a hard workout. Like you need to replenish that like relatively quick in order to have the recovery benefits for the next day. Yeah. I'm trying to think of,
trying to rationalize. So post-workout, your cortisol spiking as you go through your hard exercise about maybe not as much for doing like a long zone two thing, but let's say cortisol is up, that's gonna have an insulinogenic effect, right? You're gonna have insulin release because cortisol. So it also makes sense to not have that kind of put you into a hypoglycemic crash, right? Or like you wait too long, insulin goes away, then you dump a bunch of carbs in and you kind of just like, whoa, right?
Yeah. So I guess that also makes sense of like carbohydrate, not just like glycogen shuttling, but blunting that insulin effect too, or not blunting, but utilizing it. Yeah. All the things that run through my head in a daily basis of trying to remember all the things I learned in all three physiology classes and apply them to everyday life. That's how you got to review. Right. All right. So what's the glutamine Nashville note here? So we were, we were joking that the entire, this past weekend went on a
bachelor trip with my buddies to Nashville. And the entire time it was just like, Hey doc, what do think about this? Just questions about random health stuff. the, you know. Did you keep telling them, Aaron Kubal says I'm not a doctor. Yeah. well my, my real doctor actually said, so the, he said that, hold on. Sorry. What? He said that. No, he says all chiropractors are doctors. They shouldn't refer to themselves. Yeah. So.
Beau Beard (38:41.152)
As one would expect on a bachelor trip, there's very little sleep, lots of alcohol and highly processed foods. That's pretty standard. So the first night, one of the guys has had a history of some GI problems and just doesn't do a ton about it. he, he goes, man, does anybody have anything for my stomach? It's just not feeling good at all. And I had some supplements that I planned to bring. Like I had some activated charcoal, some things that some element and I
left all that at home, still don't know where it is. But, you started crying for sure. had some glutamine with me and I was like, here, try that. and he took it and like an hour later he goes, dude, I don't know what this is, but I feel a thousand times better. he just kept going on and on the whole weekend about glutamine, basically told me he's going to be a pharmaceutical sales rep for glutamine. and I was like, Hey, glad that it helped.
It definitely would be better than some alternatives. You just get it CVS, but, I had had some benefits from it. Like, you know, when we talked about with some of the, stomach cramping and things like that, it was going on towards the end of the year. And I just keep it at home in the event that I start feeling some of that. so, yeah, it was just a cool seeing that help other people. And you know, if you buy it on, it's not an expensive supplement. It's one of the cheapest ones.
If need be. Because what is it doing? Glutamine. So what, okay, what happens when you drink alcohol? So there's a couple things and we'll talk about another one. So a couple things happen. So you have to metabolize the alcohol. What gets formed by metabolizing alcohol? Atohides? Yeah. Yeah. Acetyl Atohides. The OHs. So when you have those present, what do those do to the gut lining? They basically make it more porous or
you have a little bit of a leaky gut, which then be like, God, leaky gut. But basically what glutamine is doing is helping create like a better barrier within the gut lining. So then if you're leaking these noxious, you know, materials out of your gut, there's a thought process that a lot of what you're feeling the day after from a hangover from symptoms is coming from that, which goes hand hand of why you use glutamine for leaky gut, which is why you're using it in first place. So that would be a good thing for that portion of it. Another one, supplements.
Beau Beard (41:03.19)
getting ready to go to Nashville right after this with a bunch of people that really like wine. So dihydro my reciting or DHM. It's been around for a long time. It's basically it's a Japanese herb, but this has been proven to speed up the metabolism of alcohol. So this is something like if you're going to go have a few drinks, it's something you're taking like right at the, when you have your last drink. So it's like right at the end of the night type thing. But it's just basically helping
when you form those acetylaldehydes, metabolize those faster. That's the mechanism. So yeah, I put a bunch of these in our little supplement thing and I'll take these at end of the night. I've done it before and I'm going to be honest with you, I probably drank way too much to make this effective when I took it. So we'll also put that to the test this weekend, but I'll be taking those every night. And the ones that I have are from this Doublewood. I don't even know what the brand is, but they have this
formulation has electrolytes built into it. So I'm looking at what is in here. 300 milligrams.
And then...
Beau Beard (42:18.638)
Yeah, so I'll be taking those but there's a bunch of I'll put in a link to that That supplement Yeah, is that it for the Nashville? Yeah, okay Moving into cases unless we got any other rando updates articles fun things updates on the Epstein case diddy anything no
Just the warmth in this back office. Yeah, it's getting, it's heating up. So I put a post out on Instagram about this, but I just wanted to talk a little more in depth because I also have more information on it. So my sister, if you didn't see the post, called me about two weeks ago now, absolutely just crying. I thought somebody had died because when she picked up the phone, she, you know, sounds terrible. And then she's like, I hurt myself. So my sister is 51. She was out playing soccer with her kids.
our youngest kid, parents versus kids. And she made a lateral cut and thought she ruptured her hamstring. And she said she didn't go down. She just kind of sat down and was like, oh, so it's not like she just collapsed or buckled. So she had called me the next morning crying, saying she thinks she ruptured her hamstring. So I asked her husband to look and no bruising, no swelling. I was like, probably not. She had also seven months prior, she had fallen downstairs and landed on her tailbone and had significant pain.
Thought she fractured her tailbone. I don't think she ever had imaging. But since then it's had sacral tailbone pain on that side, on the right side, more or less, where she now ruptured her hamstring. So I asked her all these questions, have her do a slump test, which is kind of like bending over, trying to straighten that leg. And she's like, yeah, it gets worse when I straighten my leg, but not necessarily just rounding my back. So was like, hey, let's just start doing some generalized movements around your low back. So having her do some McKenzie stuff, because I'm not there to,
you know, get hands on and see what's going on. She goes to ER because she thinks that, you know, something's really going on. They give her, do an x-ray, no vulgian, nothing around her pelvis. Give her Dilaudid. Dilaudid takes the edge off but doesn't kill it. So that's probably putting us back into that nerve category. And then she does, you know, at days where it's just the slow back stuff and then reports back to me that her low back is killing her, but her hamstring or hip, it's really her sit bone or ischial tuberosity. She's like, that's quite a bit better.
Beau Beard (44:46.894)
And she goes, but I can't keep doing these extensions. My back hurts about it. was like, keep going. So she keeps going. She's like, it's getting better, but it's slow. And I just texted her the other day. So two days ago, but it keeps getting better. But now she's like, man, if I get in an excited, then start doing dead bugs and some like sciatic nerve flossing as we got her further out. She goes, if I'm in that dead bug and I try to get my leg to go straight, it absolutely kills my hamstring. And she still thinks that your hamstring.
I'm like, it was never your hamstring. So she's at this point now I asked her yesterday, which I don't know why her text isn't on here. But I was like, how's the leg slash back and she's like, it's good. just, it's really sore if I, you know, bend all the way over and I'll do like a toe touch and things like that. So this is now three weeks out from the initial injury, which I would say is a hundred percent of nerve, whatever call it, nerve traction, sensitization injury. She's better, but not perfect.
Her back is now bothering her more than her hamstring. what she told me the other day, she goes, well, yeah, I went out and gardened all day. So she's been over, she's in flexion. And she goes, now my hip or my sit bone is hurting me a lot. I was like, well, that kind of makes sense for what we're going for. I wanted to bring this up because I did a video on nerve versus muscle strain. We've talked about that. Talked about this on Instagram. I think this is one of the most common things for calf strains.
hamstring strains and I'm saying strains with air quotes. I mean, a lot of things that we're dealing with around the human body with pain are nerve sensitivities, nerve, maybe a little traction, you know, I wouldn't call it an injury, but like traction against excess tension in the body. And then we treat them like strains or tendinopathies or something else. And you aim the wrong treatment at the wrong thing. So people get, you know,
It's like my sister leaning on her tailbone. I don't think she fractured her tailbone. I think she smashed her clonial nerve and then I got pissed off and she wouldn't do anything specifically to like alleviate that. And then that set up the framework for you have a bunch of nerve irritation. You go put a hard fast pole on something, your operator nerve or whatever, and you get all these symptoms that seem like you're up to your hamstring. So what's, what does anybody take away from that? That's listening to this. If you're a clinician, obviously you put on your clinician hat.
Beau Beard (47:12.27)
put people in the appropriate hospital as Michael Shacock would say that you're not treating a strain just based on what they told you versus what you actually find in your exam. If you're a patient or a lay person, realizing that, go watch that video that I put out on nervous muscle strain. Like there's keystones to look for. If you think you or your child or a friend or a loved one pulled a muscle or ruptured a muscle, you're going to have signs of an injury, right? Swelling, bruising, redness. I mean, all these things are gonna occur just like if you sprained an ankle.
If you don't have those, doesn't mean 100 % that you don't have some sort of like tissue injury, because you could have, you yank a piece of bone off of like your sit bone, which is why she got an X, my sister got an X-ray. You're not gonna have a lot of that with, know, bleeding and things with that. You'll have some, but if you rupture something or have a mild or a major strain, you're gonna have signs and you know, you're probably gonna have a hamstring that's the color of my shirt or a mix between the color of our shirts here. You'll know. If you don't have that,
and it hurts with things that don't make sense for a muscle strain. So like my sister kept saying that, you know, she could basically make it feel better by having her leg tucked up behind her and be like, that's a hamstring strain, right? Because that's how they used to tape hamstring strains, which is kind of insane, right? They would literally tape your calf back to your back of your thigh and keep it in a shortened position to let it heal, which is absolutely ridiculous now to think about that.
But I was like, think you're just offloading the nerve. And then that's why we would do like a slump test or slumps to traction that nerve and see if you can recreate symptoms without necessarily having to have a muscle issue. So beating a dead horse, but I think this is most of the pain, musculoskeletal pain that people are dealing with is nerve sensitization, irritation, and not legit like pathologies. So if you treat it appropriately, you're just gonna get a lot better benefit. So look up videos that I've done, other people have done.
Eric Cobb talks about this a lot. yeah, any comments on that? I it's one of the most common things we see in here too. Just not people also having acute trauma. I think it's my hamstring. I think it's my hip. I think it's my calf. And it ends up being some sort of nerve irritation, know, distal or central or both, usually a mix of both. And they've had people treating them and they've either been doing the exact opposite of what they need to be doing or
Beau Beard (49:36.558)
dancing around the issue. But again, that's why diagnostic accuracy is absolutely critical. Cause like once you know, you just, know what to do. If you treat everything like, that's hamstring tension and you stretch it, you will not only probably make something worse, you're probably going to hurt somebody, which we've seen happen as well. That people go to stretch zone or get aggressive on their own or go to, you know, Cairo or PT that's stretching nerve tension. Then they end up with more symptoms or a different injury altogether. Yeah. That's all I got to say about that.
Any cases you guys wanted to bring up or talk about?
I'll have one next time more than likely. One that came in yesterday that I should get to. It's trauma related that might, know, we're probably, we got an X-ray yesterday and we were going to get an MRI as well, gymnast. So, all right. We'll see. Mine is, I guess I saw her yesterday as well. She actually is the one who helped outfit the gym. She's from right fitness. She came in yesterday with some like basically sciatic nerve pain.
I say that because she like points like right around like ischial tuberosity on her right side, feels some low back pain, kind of radiates into her glute. But she never has both of those issues at the same time and that's been going on for probably like three years. She kind of picked up running like five years ago and her hips started bothering her. Kind of like I guess a little bit on the outside but she kind of points like more just like mid-glute and she noticed that like that would hurt.
And then on days that her glute didn't hurt her like right SI would hurt and then kind of just bounce back and forth. She's like, I kind of got frustrated because neither one of them would pop up at the exact same time. so she went and saw an ortho ortho, pulled an MRI and said, you have a glute me tear. no, she has a labral tear labral tear. she's 47. I think. yeah, no, she's late forties.
Beau Beard (51:40.046)
So she has the, so one ortho told her she had a labral tear. She then goes to the surgeon or another surgeon, right? That's fixing up to perform that like the actual surgical part. And he goes, you don't have a labral tear. You have a glute meat tear. And she goes, why was that not picked up on the other one?
And he goes, well, most people probably have some type of labral tear, but he goes, I don't think that that's your cause. He goes, I think you have a glute me tear. like, show the tear. thing is, if you look at the literature on people, again, that's why I asked age of like non-symptomatic glute me tears that show up on MRI, the distal insertion by the trochanter quite a bit. And so she got a repair done on it. On the glute mead? On the glute mead. That was like 18 months ago. And then...
still had the exact same amount of pain. the kicker here is pain dancing around all these different areas. Exactly. So it's doing all that. She then goes back to the ortho because he goes, he told her, like, I need to try and get it for verbatim. He goes, if you still continue having pain, we will operate on the labrum. This is the guy that said she didn't have labrum tear. Yes. So goes back to another guy.
He operates on the labrum. She now has more pain than before because she goes, I never had this like inner hip pain anymore. But she goes, I definitely have it. Like, you if you do like a, like it's like a fadier or some type of scourge, she's like, it just like smokes inside of my hip. And she goes, I kind of just have like inner hip pain like all the time. She's like, it feels worse when I stand, feels better when I like sit down and.
Anyways, she But that was a different surgeon? That was a different, I think she's been to three surgeons. She then, yeah, and I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole story again, because she just told me a lot. She talked for like 25 minutes before I even spoke again. She then goes that he told me that if I continue having pain, we can just do some nerve blocks to help with the pain. So she gets one in her glute med, no change. She gets one in her labrum.
Beau Beard (53:57.71)
No change. She gets one in like her like SI low back. She goes that one, I had no pain for like two months. And I was like, okay, perfect. yeah, so I mean, to kind of keep it short, I mean, like she can't flex her back to save her life. I mean, she's literally just like stuck in so much extension. I mean, it's like not even funny. I mean, you like lay her down like on her stomach and like, can compress like TL and it almost shows up as like a mains. Like you can press it and it like lights up like down her side, like into her glute.
into the front. So I just had, I just like cupped her back and had her go through like some cat cows. She stood up and like she extended all the way back, like extension just like blows it out of the water. Then I sent her home with like some flexions and stuff to get her outside joint. And she looked at me and she goes, so you mean to tell me I probably didn't need any of those surgeries? I said, I'm not going to tell you that you probably didn't need to. All I'm saying is you got a nerve block in her back and you felt the best you ever did. You had, said, if it was a hip pathology,
and you had two surgeries to your hips and two nerve blocks to your hips, probably would have taken care of it. One of those studies I was talking about on the asymptomatic glute med tears is coming from like low back cases, right? Where they do an MRI and then they happen to get imaging on a hip because it was ordered by somebody else. And then they look at the match or overlay of primary lumbar radiculopathy and then glute med tears. I'll see if I can find that article before we put the show up.
Yeah, I mean that kind of and she basically looked at me and she was like, she's like, I want to get back to running, but I don't think I'll ever will. And then we just got to talking and I was like, you know, I'm half Ironman and things like that. And she's like, you know, I've always wanted to do a half Ironman. said, okay. And then I literally went to the treatment and I looked at her said, you give me one month. I was like, by the end of the month, I want you to pick a half Ironman that you want to do next year and we'll get you ready for it. I feel pretty confident on her next show. confident in her. So let's remember the update on that one.
I think we'll do caffeine next time just because we're going long and you got quite a bit on that, which is good. Yeah, maybe, maybe as we go through and again, we'll have time to plan. Maybe we get some feedback over the summer. mean, I don't want anybody to think that we're just picking on other people in our profession for the, you know, pulling out these like, my God, they were treated poorly. But like the main theme of musculoskeletal care is people are treated poorly, right? So my sister didn't go to somebody else. She could have very easily went somebody else and got treated for a hamstring strain that didn't exist and that happened all the time.
Beau Beard (56:23.662)
this lady's legit had surgeries and then actually worse symptomatology or different post-surgically, which opens up a whole another can of worms of somebody telling that you don't have a pathology and then they say they operate on the non-existent pathology that there's so much weird stuff like that that then it makes me.
Even people that are really good physicians, it makes me really hesitant because I think people are, they let the patient control the scenario too much. Yeah, you're in charge of your own health, but if you're telling somebody that you'll operate on their hip that you're saying there's not a pathology because you want to appease whatever's going on between you two, think that's a huge problem. If you're a physician, you don't think there's pathology, why are you allowing that to become part of the conversation? Are you inept? Are you negligent? Are you ignorant?
I mean, there's all these things that come about, but I think moving forward, maybe we do highlight common pitfalls or common injuries and like pitfalls that people get into. Like I'm thinking of a very, very common one of like lateral elbow pain and all the stuff that can happen around that. Yeah. And just kind of talk about like some common themes like, Hey, if you've dealt with this for this long and had these types of treatments, like make sure you rule this out or look at this. Cause that to us is extremely simple.
People always have that post-treatment comment of like, that's all it might've been, or I should've done this first, or, so again, order of operations, appropriate triage, the entire medical system on the musculoskeletal side, the triage system is upside down completely. So if you had a pyramid, at the top, and I'm not saying top best, top most invasive, the most invasive intervention musculoskeletal is surgery, right? Or ablation, surgeries, procedures.
The lowest, if we went all the way low, I think would be personal trainer strength conditioning. That you're in this realm and you're like, eh, something's kind of bugging me. You don't go see somebody you modify, know, regress, progress, whatever. Then it gets into us. Then it gets into conservative orthos, injections, things like that. And then it gets into surgeries. It starts at the surgery side, right? We go in for an orthopedic console on foot pain from running for four weeks.
Beau Beard (58:36.248)
And that's where I get really hesitant with the interventions that they're going to apply. Cause I feel like they're trying to do their best, but they feel like they need to do something and feeling like you need to do something that's irreversible or has, you know, we could hurt somebody in here, I guess too, but like it's a lot harder to. And then our first job is always like protect the person. So yeah, maybe that's what we'll talk about a little bit more, have a theme around it moving into the next part of this next season, I guess. Yeah. So we need an update for our last show on her. We'll be talking about caffeine.
All right. How much you can drink and still be sane. And one last thing on her. There's just like again, she I got I literally took her through some like POGOs on like her like right side because I was like you want to get back to running. Let's just see like what your one legged like on the affected side on the affected side. And it's painful for her to do. Well, just place a cup like over her side joint. Have really exact same thing. She's like, yeah, I feel fantastic. There's like no pain even on like testing. mean, it's like you take a right hand out of it and rotate. Pain's ethereal.
Right? So let's say the pain, you know, we're using pain as a what isn't it? Yep. Right. Not what it is. And I want everybody to take that away from what Seth was just saying. So if somebody says we do a single leg pogo jump. a single leg stance can be is in the orthopedic realm of glute, mead, tendinopathies, tears, deep, what is it? Deep trochanteric syndrome or whatever it's called, the force equal a of, you know, glute, mead.
trochanteric bursitis. don't even know what all the four are anymore. Silly names. Like all those things like standing on one leg can be indicative of that. Take that up a notch. That's jumping on one leg. You get under stress fractures, terminal neck, terminal tabular, know, derangements. But if you put a cup on somebody and you take away the pain, the likelihood of that being the case goes way down. Doesn't go to zero. It goes way down. And that's what we're trying to prove with these pain intervention things. Not, it's a nerve thing because no, it's
probably not these. So then we go further into nerve sensitization, lumbar, or whatever. I think some people would say, oh, I put a cup and now it's gotta be that nerve. It's that nerve, that clunial nerve or whatever, ilioenglone nerve, whatever we're on. That's not the case, right? Because nerve, afferent and efferent functions are very complicated. It's not mess with the nerve, you don't have pain anymore. It's like, why is the nerve hot?
Beau Beard (01:01:00.046)
It's been hot for so long. You've had blocks, you've had surgeries. It's a processing thing. And that's where you're doing, I think, a really good thing of neuro-tagging a goal that she's wanted to do prior to all this that she probably doesn't think she can do. And if you can get her anywhere close to that, that's kind of the process of having your subconscious pull you along instead of you being like, no, it's not your hip, it's your back. Let's get your back feeling better. And then she still has to buy into, it's my back. But the test becomes, I can do this thing I couldn't even do before.
versus I'm just better than I was doing the same stuff. Yeah, so definitely would like a update on that. And hopefully maybe by the next season this fall, we got a bigger update on her actually doing something. Okay, so next time we got an update on that, we'll have some cases, talk about some caffeine. We always have some articles. also give you updates on DNS from this weekend, the running or treat. And I think that's it. See you next time.
